A composer as NLE?


#1

You can do some simple composing and color corrections in an NLE program.
I’m not so home to compositor apps but can you use Natron as an NLE also?
I think there is a lack of NLE:s besides the big as Avid or Adobe Premier or too simple as Windows Movie maker.
There are Blender but its not really using the normal workflow and there is Lightworks but limit to SD resolution for the free version.
So again are Natron possible to use for cutting and pasting a video?


#2

opensource NLE’s are lacking, they are miles away from commercial products in my opinion.

If you are on Windows and don’t want to pay too much then Sony Vegas is a very good alternative.

EDIT: maybe answer your question :stuck_out_tongue: , it’s possible to use Natron for some editing, but it can’t replace a normal NLE.


#3

“nuke studio” looks very close to a NLE based on the core of a compositing environment. it looks very promising. the linux version is missing audio support for all video formats, but otherwise it’s quite usable and very well customizable. you can test it on all platforms by getting the free non-commercial version. it would be very fine, if natron could show similar possibilities in the far future.


#4

kdenlive works really well on Linux and cinelerra or cinelerra-cv are great also.
Openshot v2.0 will be cross platform but always in development.
You can perhaps try shotcut: http://www.shotcut.org/bin/view/Shotcut/Download


#5

You should take a look at Davinci Resolve. It has become a very good NLE since v12 and it’s free. But it’s not available on Linux.


#6

Thanks for all your answers.
As I can see there are some free NLE solutions, some not bad at all.
Some how I prefer Open Source from Free Ware but for NLE there are not any really good Open Source alternative, right?

To use a compositing software for NLE operations is not optimal even if it can work in Nuke and Fusion and even Natron as mention here, if I understand you right?

But, is it a bad idea to mix node based composing and NLE in the same soft ware?

Regards Stefan


#7

To use a compositing software for NLE operations is not optimal even if it can work in Nuke and Fusion and even Natron as mention here, if I understand you right?

NLEs are more optimized for fast response and realtime preview. Compositing software is more focused on maximal quality of image processing and well structured workflows. but the boundaries are indistinct. resolve is very well example how applications are becoming more and more general purpose tools nowadays.

the minimum we shoud ask for is a better integration/cooperation/exchange between actual available free NLEs and compositors like natron.


#8

the minimum we shoud ask for is a better integration/cooperation/exchange between actual available free NLEs and compositors like natron.

Yes I agree, of cause.
I know Premiere and After Effects work well together.
Are there any knowledge about Resolve to Fusion?
Nuke to ?

What is a good work flow any way?


#9

Blender isn’t the perfect NLE, but is great to edit image sequences and do basic color correction.
In a few world , very well suited for editing animation or vfx projects. (In the open source world)
The best it’s that it got a very strong python API that enable to make connections between Blender and Natron.
That unique feature in most NLE make it my first choice if I had to build a VFX pipeline or a 3D animation pipe. You can make a kind of mini-Nuke studio by linking these 2 applications.

That’s for me the first choice. If Kdenlive would have a python API it may be better, as it’s a better NLE than Blender. But for now the only fast and ready solution is blender !


#10

People talking about NLE’s always seem to miss Lightworks… :wink:

http://www.lwks.com/


#11

no – free software users may have good reasons to ignore lwks!

a software company that has used the ‘open source’ label in such a shameless way, without publishing a line of the promised code over all this years, is more incompatible with the free software ecosystem than all this strict commerical oriented products (e.g. the foundrys ‘nuke’)


#12

Lightworks is in my knowledge, since a long time back, and they come with a big update now, I know. But Edit Share have also surprised me to first advertise the releasing of the software as an open source, but this is ,what I know, not happened!
They have a free version but I think this is a bit skimpy when it does not handle HD.
Then I feel more for Resolves free version when I have a Windows system.

My first question is answered, Natron is not a good NLE.
There are Free NLE:s and some open source.
But it’s surprising, there is no open source NLE with the same quality as Blender, Krita, maybe Gimp and now Natron is for other creative tasks.


#13

Then start one;) Making an open-source program is very challenging. It would require at least 2 or 3 experienced developers dedicated full-time for 2 years straight to come up with an editor with the same production quality as Premiere pro


#14

I’m not a programmer so I better not. :smile:
I understand it’s not easy and actually I should say It’s surprising there are competitive “pro” open source soft ware like Blender, Krita, Gimp, Audacity, Inkscape and Natron .
There are good or better open source soft ware for office, web, video and audio playing and of course all the Linux OS:es etc.
All with other founding’s then selling the soft ware.
But no NLE.
I’m absolutely not complaining. I’m just surprised there is so many dedicated open source project but no NLE. :open_mouth: ?


#15

Several people have tried (and still trying), but (no dissrespect) they are still “movie maker” quality, or just old (cinelerra).

All I need is a timeline editor with good “copy/cut/paste”, the rest can be done in Natron :slight_smile:


Problem with email notification
#16

For Win and Mac freeware Resolve Lite is available. Now it can do most of usual NLE tasks.
Open source products for Win has a problem. It is so powerful competitor as widely pirated Vegas xDDDDDDD. So, open NLE’s projects for Win have not enough popularity and active development.
For Linux Cinelerra-CV (more stable, then older Cinelerra branch) is only solution, if you need advansed NLE. But Cinelerra has UI, that looks non-modern and lacks GPU acceleration. OpenGL Shading Language used to accelerate some filters, but rendering still CPU-only. Cinelerra is faster, than many similar applications, but… Some years ago it was usual to video editing software switching to CUDA. Now they switching to OpenCL. Both development branches of Cinelerra lacks developers, that can into GPU computing, to do same.
mash_graz and Eban65 told enough about Lightworks. Good software, but it’s shame to lie about “open source” in advertising. Regardless who lies - developer company or advertise-maker. For open-source community it means: no money for liars!
Nuke is great tool, new versions have NLE main funcionality, but is is brutal privacy violator. http://forums.cgsociety.org/archive/index.php?t-1151366.html
tl;dr The Foundry, trying to catch some pirates, spying for all users. And their EULA looks incompatible with national laws in many countries. Hmm. Is it very bad against forum rules, if I name Nuke developers “The Faggotry”? xDDDD


#17

For Win and Mac freeware Resolve Lite is available. Now it can do most of usual NLE tasks.

yes, it’s a nice solution for mac and windows users, but blackmagic doesn’t like to treat linux users like the addicts of this more popular platforms. the linux edition is only available together with $30.000 control panel hardware, not as a free lite entry product.

most linux NLEs aren’t very satisfying indeed. kdenlive, flowblade and shotcut may be acceptable for some minimalistic jobs, but there is a lot missing. especially interoperability and common ways of project exchange!

blenders NLE is also an horrible strange something. it does do same operations very well, but ultimately sucks in other respects. i don’t think, you can concentrate on the creative aspects of film editing and handle it an efficient way by this tool.
when they actually discuss to rewrite/replace/drop it for 2.8 i do not fell very optimistic about the realistic outcome. i often looks like binding a lot of available development-capacities to a dead horse. to concentrate on a more video-centric autonomous application that works very well together in shared workflows with other specialized [free and commercial] tools, does look much more promising to me. and that’s exactly what i really like about natron and it’s remarkable development efforts!

if someone could add a timeline like in nuke-studio/hiero to natron, fulfilling all the necessary requirements of real conforming and editing tasks, it could become a very interesting alternative. but that’s not so easy to build. many applications (e.g. blender) use much faster/simpler 8bit rec709 processing for the editing and preview path in strict contrast to more precise and computing demanding compositing and grading modes. natron would need a much more advanced caching and prefetch infrastructure to realize real time interaction to build the foundation for tools like this.

Nuke is great tool, new versions have NLE main functionality, but is is brutal privacy violator.

i really don’t like this behavior and do not want to find any words of excuse for them, but i would see it more as common practice in this area of commercial marketing.
yes – it’s another very important motivation to work on full fledged alternatives.
but the non-commercial offer from the foundry looks ‘somehow’ acceptable to me and the available software isn’t tainted by utterly crazy restrictions (e.g. flame training edition or lightworks). in contrast to blackmagic and others they treat linux users the same as mac and windows customers. that’s really remarkable! and if you compare natron and nuke in very simple practical test cases, you will immediately see, nuke is much faster till now. that’s why i have to choose it for very simple everyday jobs very often, although they could be managed by natron likewise.

yes – we have to learn from professional competitors, to make things really better – far beyond this typical free software sandbox toys – in the case of natron i’m quite optimistic concerning this challenge! :smile:


#18

v12 Studio is available on Linux, at ~ 900euro. But you point still stands, why discriminate Linux on the free version?


#19

v12 Studio is available on Linux, at ~ 900euro. But you point still stands, why discriminate Linux on the free version?

i think, you are wrong – see: https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=41504#p239745 (“The license dongle for Linux Studio is only available with the BMD panel.” – Peter Chamberlain)


#20

Clever marketing, the website don’t say anything about that, download now for Linux! Only 900 euro *** (Don’t forget the dongle at 27000 :stuck_out_tongue: )